We need commuter connection with metro north. I live in Rockland, why cant they just build a bridge or tunnel just for the railroad? So we at least connect with metro north? Or somehow connect NJ transit to the east side of manhattan, se rockland residents dont have to go into Penn station only.

What really has changed from the 1950’s when the Tappan Zee Bridge and the Thruway were rammed through Rockland and Westchester counties? As Yogi Berra purportedly said, “It’s déjà vu all over again.”
At that time there was virtually no input from the citizens of these counties who were forced to bear the consequences of increased air and noise pollution, dislocation of homes, and the elimination of South Nyack’s downtown area.

Today, the state agencies can point to dozens of meetings where the public has been invited to participate. Yet the bottom line remains unchanged; the plan to build a much larger, extremely expensive new bridge moves inexorably forward. The appearance of paying attention to the public’s concerns is there, but the reality is that no matter what has been put forth, the TZ proposal remains essentially unchanged since Gov. Pataki first suggested a replacement bridge over seven years ago.

One of the main reasons stated for a larger bridge is the supposed traffic growth that will originate in ORANGE and PUTNAM COUNTIES, north of Rockland County. The Department of Transportation is planning to funnel this assumed increase into I-87 and I-287 through Rockland and Westchester Counties, areas that are already overburdened and overdeveloped. The citizens of this area will again be forced to absorb the additional URBAN SPRAWL leading to greater noise levels, poorer air quality and possibly longer traffic delays, despite a bigger bridge. A larger belt does not solve an overweight problem.
The essential question is: do we really need a new and bigger bridge? The Thruway engineers have time and again declared the TZ Bridge to be structurally sound and safe. They have spent, and are committed to spending, many millions of dollars to insure that it remains that way.
So what will a larger bridge do for us? It can only attract more traffic, create more sprawl, further deteriorate our air quality, contribute to more ASTHMA, LUNG DISEASE and CANCER associated with our already OUT-OF-COMPLIANCE levels of ozone and particulate matter in the air. It could be dangerously self defeating as it strangles this region. As the America Lung Association has noted, “IF YOU CAN’T BREATHE, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.”
A new bridge, according to the D.O.T., will be a least double the 7-LANE width of the current bridge, with corresponding highway widening. One of the reasons for a wider bridge is to accommodate commuter rail. The last estimate was 14.5 billion dollars, but that was a few years ago. Today’s cost would be considerably higher.

Where is this money coming from? It’s a question we have often asked, but has never been answered. As of this date, the funds for this project are still not there. The M.T.A. is basically responsible for rail; they are committed to completion of the Second Ave. subway and the L.I.R.R-East connection to Grand Central Station. The potential ridership for these projects far exceeds the projected number of commuters in this corridor. These projects will be competing for federal funds and the government may not be in a position to help as it is engaged in possibly the most expensive war in history, while operating under one of the largest deficits in history. The N.Y.S. Thruway Authority could possibly issue bonds to cover some of this cost, but the ultimate burden will be on us, the taxpayers, with increased tolls and more debt.

How realistic is a commuter rail? According to the consulting engineers working for the state, tunnels will have to be dug both in Rockland and Westchester to provide a level terrain for rail. Have the state agencies factored in the cost of these tunnels? These are the same agencies that have dismissed a tunnel under the Hudson.
Do we do we really need a new and larger bridge? What we need is smarter planning for this region, planning that looks beyond the TZ Bridge and recognizes that there are vibrant and growing communities north of Rockland that will have viable urban centers with businesses, office buildings, and transportation. People should not have to travel two to four hours a day to get to a job. In addition, that area is on the cusp of having the fourth major airport in the metropolitan area. The Port Authority is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into Stewart Airport to make it happen. But nowhere in the Tappan Zee proposals are these factors given any consideration.

Excerpted from the Jan.,2008 Newsletter of Concerned Citizens for Responsible Development

4A, All the Way – The Case for Tappan Zee Bridge Replacement and Full Commuter Railroad
Mr. Clinton would not have had it any other way.

Very soon, one of the most important infrastructure and public works projects of our lifetime for the New York City tri-state region will be decided by a committee of people; most of whom are people we have never met, and will never know their names. The Tappan Zee Bridge, which directly connects Westchester and Rockland Counties and ties together the entire tri-state area in so many ways, is aging and none too gracefully. Yes, it’s true; our 50 year old bridge doesn’t look a day over 75.

Incredibly, the elected leaders of the region at every level of government, most of whom who have made public statements for reducing foreign energy dependence as well as reducing our collective carbon footprint have been largely silent on this very important issue. I personally find this quite surprising. Even more surprising is the lack of public enthusiasm from the construction companies and labor unions as this project would be of tremendous direct benefit to both groups of interest. But the needs of these two special interest groups pales in comparison to the needs of the masses that simply need to get from “Point A” to “Point B” on a daily basis so they can put food on their table.

Every municipality that presently has a railroad station in the Mid-Hudson Valley stands to greatly benefit from “Option 4A,” which in short calls for the full replacement of the Tappan Zee Bridge and the construction of approximately 30 miles of commuter railroad from Suffern to Port Chester.

For those municipalities that are cities such as Mount Vernon, New Rochelle, Poughkeepsie, Stamford, White Plains, and Yonkers; a large pool of employees would become newly available to the corporate citizens in those cities that have a presence within them. It also means those same cities can easily attract more companies to them because they can easily attract the required talent on a daily basis. For the smaller towns in between, their citizens gain new sources of potential employment whereby they can leave their cars at home; and in the process ease the congestion of our over-crowded local streets and major highways as well as reduce our dependency on foreign oil and reduce our emissions of green-house gasses.

Many may say that it is too big in scope and simply too expensive; if not outright crazy. The project is most certainly large by just about any measure. But if we look to our past, we will quickly recognize that we have been at a similar crossroads before.

Approximately one hundred ninety years ago, this area, in particular New York City, which was much smaller in terms of the land that was in use at the time; and of course as was its population, was faced with a similar dilemma regarding its future. A New York governor, very early in to his first of four terms, who also was previously a ten term mayor of New York City by the name of DeWitt Clinton pushed forth a 100+ year old proposal that was by all accounts in that day, utter lunacy. President Thomas Jefferson called the idea, “little short of madness.” He (Clinton) had the audacity to push that the State of New York spend $5,000,000, quite a hefty sum in those days, to essentially dig what amounted to a 363 mile ditch from Albany to Buffalo. That “ditch” became known as the Erie Canal.

Mr. Clinton’s previous claim to fame was the proposal and construction of “the grid” in New York City, which is how the avenues and cross streets were laid out back in 1811. It is a structure that has helped Manhattan maintain order during its enormous periods of growth, even to the present day.

The arguments against the construction of the Erie Canal almost mirror the arguments being made today to not build a full commuter railroad across Rockland and Westchester Counties. It’s too expensive, too massive in scope, and will never yield a return on investment.

“Clinton’s Ditch,” as it was referred to by those against the project, was actually generating revenue before its completion and most importantly saved New York City by retaining its dominance as the major port on the eastern seaboard. It also brought great fortunes to the cities that were dotted along the route. Schenectady, Utica, Rome, Syracuse Rochester and Buffalo all experienced periods of great economic expansion. If the State of New York had not had the vision and courage to dream big and work hard, we would have ceded our leadership as the premier port in North America to New Orleans. This is because until the construction of the Erie Canal, the only way to easily get goods past the Appalachian Mountains was to sail all way around the tip of Florida and into the Gulf of Mexico to the port of New Orleans to ship goods up the Mississippi River. The investment of our ancestors paid off in spades; and paid off for all New Yorkers.

Fast forward to the present day. Our most valuable resource is now human capital. The literal moving of minds should be our highest priority. Very simply put, the easier it is to transport human beings from one place to the other; the better off the entire tri-state region will be as a whole.

At the risk of using a double-negative, I would argue that the tri-state area cannot afford to not embark on such a construction endeavor. Our roads are overly congested, in particular I-287, I-95 and Route 9A. The cost of widening those roads would pale in comparison to constructing a 30 mile rail line connecting a total of 5 north / south rail arteries to create a “grid” of rail lines for the entire region.

This one project is comprised of the two great ideas from our past brought forth by DeWitt Clinton that laid the groundwork for economic expansion in New York for well over 100 years. It transports our most valuable resources with much greater efficiency and creates a grid of routes for such transport.

From the perspective of pure direct cost to New York State, Option 4A may actually cost New Yorkers less than the others, even though in total it costs more. Here’s why: With Option 4A, the states of New Jersey and Connecticut get pulled directly into the equation. They will have a much greater interest in the project’s success. Both the other states would gain the same way New Yorkers would. The cities would have access to a greater population pool and the smaller towns in between do not need to flood their roads with drivers. This means there will be far more influence with the United States Congress to allocate Federal funds for the project. Instead of one governor, we would have three. Instead of two senators, we would have six. Our Representatives in The House would also be much greater in number. No one is going to swing for the proverbial fences for extra funding for glorified buses that no one would ever want to take. Rail has proven itself as the preferred method of mass transit for this area and many others over the past 100 years. And its popularity in recent years has been dramatically on the rise.

The full commuter rail option also lays a large portion of the groundwork for an even greater comprehensive regional transportation infrastructure that we so desperately need. There is serious consideration for the construction of a rail link to Stewart Airport in Newburgh, which has seen it usage skyrocket in the past year. 920,000 passengers utilized Stewart in 2007, over triple the figure of 300,000 in 2006. This strategic plan would give a mass transit option to another major airport and ease the congestion at LaGuardia Airport as well as the roadways and bridges to it, which is often the mode of choice because LaGuardia Airport has no rail options whatsoever.

If we as a society are serious about encouraging the use of mass transportation, reducing the congestion of our roadways, reducing our dependency on foreign oil, reducing our carbon footprint and creating an economic foundation to sustain this area for generations to come; then I encourage you to contact all those elected officials whom represent you.

Tell them we need “4A All The Way.”

Mr. Clinton would be quite proud.

Actually it’s here:

https://blog.tstc.org/2008/02/12/a-warning-from-the-past-on-hudson-river-crossings/

I would definitely like to see some more detailed rail proposals particularly for the Route 119 corridor, which IMHO has great linear city potential (and far better then placing this much needed rail line directly beneath I-287).

Such a Route 119 proposal would go far to line up developer support.

And to reiterate: they really need to increase the bore size on the Cross Sound Link Tunnel proposal to bring it more in line with Bernard Saunders’ proposal for transport tunneling that is multi-model.

Here’s an excerpt form MYC Roads about such a multimodel tunnel:

“The proposed three-tube, nine-lane Gowanus Tunnel, which would be based on the Saunders-Herrenknecht dual-deck tunnel model once planned for the Tappan Zee and Oyster Bay-Rye crossings, would run from the existing western terminus of the Belt Parkway to the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel approach (I-478). The upper level of the outer tubes would be used for general-use traffic, while the upper level of the center tube would be used for peak-direction traffic (and may possibly be reserved for reversible HOV use). The bottom level of the tubes may be used for new subway tunnels, possibly for a future express subway line to Staten Island. Above ground, connections would be provided at EXIT 22 (Belt Parkway), EXIT 23 (38th Street), EXIT 24 (NY 27 / Prospect Expressway) and EXIT 25 (I-478 / Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel). Finally, ventilation buildings would blend into the rejuvenated neighborhoods, and parkland would be provided.”

http://www.nycroads.com/roads/gowanus/

And here’s the link for the Cross Sound Link Tunnel which alas currently lacks a rail component:

http://www.crosssoundlink.com/index.htm