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	<title>Comments on: Balancing Private Bus Benefits and Burdens in NYC</title>
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	<description>News and opinion from the Tri-State Transportation Campaign</description>
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		<title>By: Making Rules &#8212; and Room &#8212; For Intercity Buses in NYC &#124; Mobilizing the Region</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/12/02/balancing-private-bus-benefits-and-burdens-in-nyc/comment-page-1/#comment-32900</link>
		<dc:creator>Making Rules &#8212; and Room &#8212; For Intercity Buses in NYC &#124; Mobilizing the Region</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 20:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] sight-seeing buses, MTA buses, and other municipal buses are exempt from the legislation.  TSTC called for such measures in a 2009 report, &#8220;Express Route to Better Bus Service,&#8221; which [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sight-seeing buses, MTA buses, and other municipal buses are exempt from the legislation.  TSTC called for such measures in a 2009 report, &#8220;Express Route to Better Bus Service,&#8221; which [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gotham Gazette - The Wonkster &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekly Web Wrap</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/12/02/balancing-private-bus-benefits-and-burdens-in-nyc/comment-page-1/#comment-2407</link>
		<dc:creator>Gotham Gazette - The Wonkster &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekly Web Wrap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 23:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=7570#comment-2407</guid>
		<description>[...] Private Bus Burdens and Benefits (Tri-State Transportation Campaign) Cartoonist&#8217;s Take on Extraordinary Session (Matt Davies) Paying for Prospect Park&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Private Bus Burdens and Benefits (Tri-State Transportation Campaign) Cartoonist&#8217;s Take on Extraordinary Session (Matt Davies) Paying for Prospect Park&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Port Authority Budget Maintains Funds for ARC, PATH, Cashless Tolling &#124; Mobilizing the Region</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/12/02/balancing-private-bus-benefits-and-burdens-in-nyc/comment-page-1/#comment-2379</link>
		<dc:creator>Port Authority Budget Maintains Funds for ARC, PATH, Cashless Tolling &#124; Mobilizing the Region</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 23:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=7570#comment-2379</guid>
		<description>[...] Balancing Private Bus Benefits and Burdens in NYC [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Balancing Private Bus Benefits and Burdens in NYC [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris H</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/12/02/balancing-private-bus-benefits-and-burdens-in-nyc/comment-page-1/#comment-2374</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=7570#comment-2374</guid>
		<description>I think that toll roads are a good thing myself but you can&#039;t have one without the other.  Otherwise, there is no chance that a private passenger railroad could compete.  That means all of the interstates.  Non-freeway arterials like route 17 also need to be included (because it functionally serves as an interstate even though it is neither designated or designed as one).

The Indiana toll road deal was for $3.8 billion over a 75 year concession which amounts to $50 million a year, which is 0.18% of the state&#039;s $28 billion budget.  

Private commuter buses are subsidized in NJ in that they use mostly public free roads and mostly publicly owned bus stops.  They also, IIRC, get their rolling stock for $1 a year provided that the buses are used for commuter service.  

You brought up the health effects of idling so it a fair game issue.  Buses idling unnecessarily on the publicly owned and maintained streets pollute the commons of the publicly shared air which has been shown to have a causal link to respiratory health problems.  

Does someone have the same right to bury contaminated waste on their property which ends up poisoning the aquifer that provides the water for their next door neighbors?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that toll roads are a good thing myself but you can&#8217;t have one without the other.  Otherwise, there is no chance that a private passenger railroad could compete.  That means all of the interstates.  Non-freeway arterials like route 17 also need to be included (because it functionally serves as an interstate even though it is neither designated or designed as one).</p>
<p>The Indiana toll road deal was for $3.8 billion over a 75 year concession which amounts to $50 million a year, which is 0.18% of the state&#8217;s $28 billion budget.  </p>
<p>Private commuter buses are subsidized in NJ in that they use mostly public free roads and mostly publicly owned bus stops.  They also, IIRC, get their rolling stock for $1 a year provided that the buses are used for commuter service.  </p>
<p>You brought up the health effects of idling so it a fair game issue.  Buses idling unnecessarily on the publicly owned and maintained streets pollute the commons of the publicly shared air which has been shown to have a causal link to respiratory health problems.  </p>
<p>Does someone have the same right to bury contaminated waste on their property which ends up poisoning the aquifer that provides the water for their next door neighbors?</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/12/02/balancing-private-bus-benefits-and-burdens-in-nyc/comment-page-1/#comment-2369</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=7570#comment-2369</guid>
		<description>They made the collective decision to move away from passenger service because government regulations stifled their ability to work effectively and destroyed any hope of profitability for them.  That combined with the rise of union power resulted in the death knell for cheap, efficient, privately-owned passenger service.  That&#039;s why they went bankrupt and that&#039;s why they moved to freight instead of passenger service - comparatively low overhead and little to no room for government regulations to jump in and play a role.  

Amtrak was created by government fiat.  The government made the same decision back then that they did with the private auto industry recently - regulate them down to their knees, buy up as many weakened companies as possible and operate them in a top-down manner.  The unions survived bankruptcy proceedings then as they did recently, and today we have a national railroad service with only one weakly profitable line and ravaged by inefficiency and mismanagement, with acts of Congress required to make any changes.  Ours is a hallmark of how NOT to operate a railroad of any stripe - government owned or private - and everywhere else in the world, LITERALLY EVERYWHERE, there are railroad systems which make any American system look laughably ridiculous by comparison.  

As for idling, whether it affects people&#039;s health is outside the scope of this discussion - I am concerned more with the fact that the government decided it&#039;s OK to restrict where and how long a privately-owned bus legally parks while waiting for passengers or while the driver is off-duty.  I&#039;m also concerned with government regulations that are choking the life out of private bus lines just as much as they did with private passenger rail lines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They made the collective decision to move away from passenger service because government regulations stifled their ability to work effectively and destroyed any hope of profitability for them.  That combined with the rise of union power resulted in the death knell for cheap, efficient, privately-owned passenger service.  That&#8217;s why they went bankrupt and that&#8217;s why they moved to freight instead of passenger service &#8211; comparatively low overhead and little to no room for government regulations to jump in and play a role.  </p>
<p>Amtrak was created by government fiat.  The government made the same decision back then that they did with the private auto industry recently &#8211; regulate them down to their knees, buy up as many weakened companies as possible and operate them in a top-down manner.  The unions survived bankruptcy proceedings then as they did recently, and today we have a national railroad service with only one weakly profitable line and ravaged by inefficiency and mismanagement, with acts of Congress required to make any changes.  Ours is a hallmark of how NOT to operate a railroad of any stripe &#8211; government owned or private &#8211; and everywhere else in the world, LITERALLY EVERYWHERE, there are railroad systems which make any American system look laughably ridiculous by comparison.  </p>
<p>As for idling, whether it affects people&#8217;s health is outside the scope of this discussion &#8211; I am concerned more with the fact that the government decided it&#8217;s OK to restrict where and how long a privately-owned bus legally parks while waiting for passengers or while the driver is off-duty.  I&#8217;m also concerned with government regulations that are choking the life out of private bus lines just as much as they did with private passenger rail lines.</p>
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		<title>By: James R</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/12/02/balancing-private-bus-benefits-and-burdens-in-nyc/comment-page-1/#comment-2367</link>
		<dc:creator>James R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 15:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=7570#comment-2367</guid>
		<description>James, is this snark? I can&#039;t tell. You are aware that the big private railroads made the decision to divest from passenger service nearly four decades ago, aren&#039;t you? The industry made the collective decision that hauling freight was a more profitable enterprise than passenger service could ever hope to be. This was actually the impetus for the creation of Amtrak. 

Re: Megabus and idling - the linking of particulates from diesel exhaust to asthma and other respiratory ailments has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt for quite some time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, is this snark? I can&#8217;t tell. You are aware that the big private railroads made the decision to divest from passenger service nearly four decades ago, aren&#8217;t you? The industry made the collective decision that hauling freight was a more profitable enterprise than passenger service could ever hope to be. This was actually the impetus for the creation of Amtrak. </p>
<p>Re: Megabus and idling &#8211; the linking of particulates from diesel exhaust to asthma and other respiratory ailments has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt for quite some time.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/12/02/balancing-private-bus-benefits-and-burdens-in-nyc/comment-page-1/#comment-2365</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=7570#comment-2365</guid>
		<description>And there&#039;s a problem with that?  Indiana has a budget surplus of over two billion dollars remaining after the privatized ONE highway - and that&#039;s down from the four billion that was there initially, three years ago.  NY, NJ and CT could do much better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And there&#8217;s a problem with that?  Indiana has a budget surplus of over two billion dollars remaining after the privatized ONE highway &#8211; and that&#8217;s down from the four billion that was there initially, three years ago.  NY, NJ and CT could do much better.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris H</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/12/02/balancing-private-bus-benefits-and-burdens-in-nyc/comment-page-1/#comment-2348</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 05:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=7570#comment-2348</guid>
		<description>@James

Only if you also privatize the highway system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@James</p>
<p>Only if you also privatize the highway system.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/12/02/balancing-private-bus-benefits-and-burdens-in-nyc/comment-page-1/#comment-2319</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=7570#comment-2319</guid>
		<description>You may want to consider the fact that private buses take a giant financial burden off of public transit systems.  That MegaBus that is idling (oh woe is me, more environmental crap that&#039;s totally unprovable, especially with the lack of any hard data) carries the same amount of passengers, sometimes more, as a NJ Transit / MTA bus, and because those agencies didn&#039;t have to run those buses to get those people into or out of NYC, that&#039;s a giant chunk of change they didn&#039;t have to waste.  

Perhaps we might consider the possibility of slashing tax rates for privately-owned &amp; operated commuter rail and bus lines instead of burning millions of taxpayer dollars on the public option for commuters.  Privatize the MTA and NJ Transit and PATH and, oh hell let&#039;s just shoot the moon and privatize Amtrak too while we&#039;re at it.  Get the government out of the job of moving people from point A to point B.  It shouldn&#039;t take an act of government, be it federal or state, to obtain new cashflow for a business as ridiculously simple and easy to run as a railroad or bus line, and the taxpayers shouldn&#039;t be forced to pay for any upgrades or repairs or other such things, especially if their input isn&#039;t taken into account when the decisions are made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may want to consider the fact that private buses take a giant financial burden off of public transit systems.  That MegaBus that is idling (oh woe is me, more environmental crap that&#8217;s totally unprovable, especially with the lack of any hard data) carries the same amount of passengers, sometimes more, as a NJ Transit / MTA bus, and because those agencies didn&#8217;t have to run those buses to get those people into or out of NYC, that&#8217;s a giant chunk of change they didn&#8217;t have to waste.  </p>
<p>Perhaps we might consider the possibility of slashing tax rates for privately-owned &amp; operated commuter rail and bus lines instead of burning millions of taxpayer dollars on the public option for commuters.  Privatize the MTA and NJ Transit and PATH and, oh hell let&#8217;s just shoot the moon and privatize Amtrak too while we&#8217;re at it.  Get the government out of the job of moving people from point A to point B.  It shouldn&#8217;t take an act of government, be it federal or state, to obtain new cashflow for a business as ridiculously simple and easy to run as a railroad or bus line, and the taxpayers shouldn&#8217;t be forced to pay for any upgrades or repairs or other such things, especially if their input isn&#8217;t taken into account when the decisions are made.</p>
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