Comments on: Will Federal Dollars Help Ease Tappan Zee Funding Crunch? http://blog.tstc.org/2009/10/09/will-federal-dollars-help-ease-tappan-zee-funding-crunch/ News and opinion from the Tri-State Transportation Campaign Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:36:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: JK http://blog.tstc.org/2009/10/09/will-federal-dollars-help-ease-tappan-zee-funding-crunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1927 JK Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:07:26 +0000 http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6845#comment-1927 Steven, thanks for TSTC's continued coverage. It is very hard to see how this $25b bridge happens. This seems like a Gowanus, rebuild in place over decades fiasco. The political will to pay does not appear to exist. The state is broke, the MTA capital plan is still more hole than plan and federal infrastructure support is small. The National Significance fund gets less than $500m/ Yr for the whole nation. Like it or not, the bulk of the money will have to come from tolls on the bridge and Thruway and local taxes. Regarding a PPP, private equity firms don't give money away. They raise tolls to levels government is unwilling too. They sell bonds based on toll revenue just as governments can and do and rake off a profit. Lastly, has there been any cost benefit analysis of the transit spending proposed for the TZ? Is there really a justifiable TOD benefit? If so, how much of a subsidy per unit of TOD housing would it be? What is the opportunity cost of spending $6 to $8 billion of scarce NY transit capital dollars here instead within the MTA? Steven, thanks for TSTC’s continued coverage. It is very hard to see how this $25b bridge happens. This seems like a Gowanus, rebuild in place over decades fiasco. The political will to pay does not appear to exist. The state is broke, the MTA capital plan is still more hole than plan and federal infrastructure support is small. The National Significance fund gets less than $500m/ Yr for the whole nation. Like it or not, the bulk of the money will have to come from tolls on the bridge and Thruway and local taxes. Regarding a PPP, private equity firms don’t give money away. They raise tolls to levels government is unwilling too. They sell bonds based on toll revenue just as governments can and do and rake off a profit. Lastly, has there been any cost benefit analysis of the transit spending proposed for the TZ? Is there really a justifiable TOD benefit? If so, how much of a subsidy per unit of TOD housing would it be? What is the opportunity cost of spending $6 to $8 billion of scarce NY transit capital dollars here instead within the MTA?

]]> By: Steven Higashide http://blog.tstc.org/2009/10/09/will-federal-dollars-help-ease-tappan-zee-funding-crunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1901 Steven Higashide Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:58:31 +0000 http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6845#comment-1901 Cap'n, this project will result in a much improved transit system that has the potential to target development in the Hudson Valley around transit stations instead of in open space. As you may know, at our urging NYSDOT has begun a training program for towns to do just that (the program is managed by Regional Plan Association, Project for Public Spaces, and Reconnecting America, all highly professional organizations). The new bridge will also provide pedestrian and bicycle access, which the current bridge does not. The existing bridge has 4 general purpose lanes in the peak direction already, so the expansion is primarily adding transit capacity. While we support this project, we don't support it passively. We continue to work with the study team and in the stakeholder working groups to improve the project. For example, in the Draft EIS the study team is now examining a busway option that replaces the Rockland HOT lanes/Westchester bus lanes with a separate dedicated transitway. Cap’n, this project will result in a much improved transit system that has the potential to target development in the Hudson Valley around transit stations instead of in open space. As you may know, at our urging NYSDOT has begun a training program for towns to do just that (the program is managed by Regional Plan Association, Project for Public Spaces, and Reconnecting America, all highly professional organizations). The new bridge will also provide pedestrian and bicycle access, which the current bridge does not. The existing bridge has 4 general purpose lanes in the peak direction already, so the expansion is primarily adding transit capacity.

While we support this project, we don’t support it passively. We continue to work with the study team and in the stakeholder working groups to improve the project. For example, in the Draft EIS the study team is now examining a busway option that replaces the Rockland HOT lanes/Westchester bus lanes with a separate dedicated transitway.

]]> By: Anon http://blog.tstc.org/2009/10/09/will-federal-dollars-help-ease-tappan-zee-funding-crunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1892 Anon Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:17:10 +0000 http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6845#comment-1892 Moreover, adding that single general use lane makes it so that the reversible lane is no longer required. Moreover, adding that single general use lane makes it so that the reversible lane is no longer required.

]]> By: Anon http://blog.tstc.org/2009/10/09/will-federal-dollars-help-ease-tappan-zee-funding-crunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1891 Anon Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:15:08 +0000 http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6845#comment-1891 Cap'n', No new bridge, no radically improved transit for the I-287 corridor. You are not going to get the Suburban populations of Rockland and Westchester to give up a general use lane to bus only especially considering the current backups. I seriously doubt that commuter rail could be added to the existing bridge. Moreover, the bridge likely needs to be replaced one way or another as it was built on the cheap in the first place. If the bridge is going to be replaced, 3 additional lanes (IIRC, only one additional general use lane) are going to represent a marginal increase in cost for the project. Cap’n',

No new bridge, no radically improved transit for the I-287 corridor. You are not going to get the Suburban populations of Rockland and Westchester to give up a general use lane to bus only especially considering the current backups. I seriously doubt that commuter rail could be added to the existing bridge. Moreover, the bridge likely needs to be replaced one way or another as it was built on the cheap in the first place. If the bridge is going to be replaced, 3 additional lanes (IIRC, only one additional general use lane) are going to represent a marginal increase in cost for the project.

]]> By: Nyack News and Views » New TZB Funding Proves Elusive http://blog.tstc.org/2009/10/09/will-federal-dollars-help-ease-tappan-zee-funding-crunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1884 Nyack News and Views » New TZB Funding Proves Elusive Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:21:07 +0000 http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6845#comment-1884 [...] TriState Transportation Campaign (TSTC) blog says officials are leaving no stone unturned in seeking funds for the [...] [...] TriState Transportation Campaign (TSTC) blog says officials are leaving no stone unturned in seeking funds for the [...]

]]> By: Cap'n Transit http://blog.tstc.org/2009/10/09/will-federal-dollars-help-ease-tappan-zee-funding-crunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1859 Cap'n Transit Sat, 10 Oct 2009 03:42:53 +0000 http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6845#comment-1859 Seriously, Steven, wouldn't transit riders, pedestrians, cyclists and New York State taxpayers be so much better off if they <b>never</b> found funding for this thing? I'm still honestly baffled that Tri-State supports spending billions to widen this bridge by three lanes. Why did no one ask how much it would reduce the cost if the widening were scrapped? Just kill the thing already! Seriously, Steven, wouldn’t transit riders, pedestrians, cyclists and New York State taxpayers be so much better off if they never found funding for this thing? I’m still honestly baffled that Tri-State supports spending billions to widen this bridge by three lanes. Why did no one ask how much it would reduce the cost if the widening were scrapped? Just kill the thing already!

]]> By: Clark Morris http://blog.tstc.org/2009/10/09/will-federal-dollars-help-ease-tappan-zee-funding-crunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1857 Clark Morris Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:32:03 +0000 http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6845#comment-1857 BRT will be a waste of money. A rail line that connects with Metro-North on the New Haven Region, goes through White Plain and terminates in Suffern with provision for extension to the airport in Newburgh will give far better value for the money. Even with current staffing rules a two person, two or three car train of M8 style cars could operate every 15 minutes throughout the day to provide connectivity with existing buses and also enable routes at the nodes to connect with each other. At 213 seats in a two car train, this gives the equivalent of 4 regular buses or 3 articulated buses. If you can persuade the Federal Railway Administration that cars meeting European Body Strength Rules EN15227 and EN12662 are as safe as US cars, then the trains could be noticeably lighter and thus put less strain on the bridge. Depending on the overhead line voltage chosen, you can even run the cars in the street as NICTD is doing daily in Michigan City, Indiana. The Rhaetian Railway in Switzerland is doing it with 11 or 12 thousand volts, 16 2/3 cycles AC in Switzerland, a country noted for safe, punctual operation of passenger trains. BRT will be a waste of money. A rail line that connects with Metro-North on the New Haven Region, goes through White Plain and terminates in Suffern with provision for extension to the airport in Newburgh will give far better value for the money. Even with current staffing rules a two person, two or three car train of M8 style cars could operate every 15 minutes throughout the day to provide connectivity with existing buses and also enable routes at the nodes to connect with each other. At 213 seats in a two car train, this gives the equivalent of 4 regular buses or 3 articulated buses. If you can persuade the Federal Railway Administration that cars meeting European Body Strength Rules EN15227 and EN12662 are as safe as US cars, then the trains could be noticeably lighter and thus put less strain on the bridge. Depending on the overhead line voltage chosen, you can even run the cars in the street as NICTD is doing daily in Michigan City, Indiana. The Rhaetian Railway in Switzerland is doing it with 11 or 12 thousand volts, 16 2/3 cycles AC in Switzerland, a country noted for safe, punctual operation of passenger trains.

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