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	<title>Comments on: RELEASE: NJ Turnpike Authority Asks for Sanctions to Silence Critics of Parkway Widening</title>
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	<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/</link>
	<description>News and opinion from the Tri-State Transportation Campaign</description>
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		<title>By: NJ Court Ignores Turnpike Authority Motion; Allows Parkway Suit to Proceed &#171; Mobilizing the Region</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1396</link>
		<dc:creator>NJ Court Ignores Turnpike Authority Motion; Allows Parkway Suit to Proceed &#171; Mobilizing the Region</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1396</guid>
		<description>[...] Turnpike Authority Motion; Allows Parkway Suit to&#160;Proceed  Last week Tri-State issued a press release stating that the New Jersey Turnpike Authority had made a motion to sanction Tri-State in its  suit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Turnpike Authority Motion; Allows Parkway Suit to&nbsp;Proceed  Last week Tri-State issued a press release stating that the New Jersey Turnpike Authority had made a motion to sanction Tri-State in its  suit [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen Concerned</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1398</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen Concerned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1398</guid>
		<description>Jimmy, I looked at the NJ Turnpike Authority&#039;s numbers online and it seems like the wider road won&#039;t solve the traffic problem. So what are we paying for? I don&#039;t get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy, I looked at the NJ Turnpike Authority&#8217;s numbers online and it seems like the wider road won&#8217;t solve the traffic problem. So what are we paying for? I don&#8217;t get it.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1397</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1397</guid>
		<description>&quot;If the PRT vehicles are the same size as cars then the energy consumption will be about the same.&quot;

PRT systems that are well-designed are not the same size as cars, they are smaller.  They are also lighter than even a car of the same size because they carry neither fuel nor batteries but run on an electrified guideway.  The switch patent I posted before shows a wheel and guideway design that results in much lower rolling resistance than does a simple tire-on-roadway design, further increasing efficiency.  Also, much of the bulk of automobiles is for safety reasons, but the risk of impact is much much lower for PRT (the risk of head-on impact is essentially zero, for example, and the risk of a side collision is exactly zero), and since all vehicles are equally lightweight to begin with, there is not the same degree of danger as there is for, say, an SUV impacting a compact car.

&quot;PRT means grade separated infrastructure which is tunnel, open cut or elevated.&quot;

Yes.

&quot;If elevated the line will have to be 15 – 20 feet off the ground.&quot;

Yes, but this can be done relatively cheaply with small and lightweight vehicles (on the order of a few tens of millions per mile).

&quot;There will have to be storage tracks for at least some of the stations.&quot;

Trains require storage yards as well, as do automobiles.  But because PRT vehicles are shared throughout the day, unlike private automobiles, you need fewer PRT &quot;parking spaces&quot; than you do automobile parking spaces (some estimates are around 1/10 as many), and spaces can be smaller because the vehicles are smaller and do not need room for access by humans while they&#039;re parked in storage.  And since average speeds are higher than conventional rail, and total capacity needed for a given throughput is inversely related to average speed, you need less total capacity for PRT than you do for rail.

By the way, the reason PRT vehicles are as large as they are is for ADA compliance, which means being able to fit a wheelchair facing forward in every single vehicle.  If this requirement were relaxed so that only a certain percent of all vehicles needed to be ADA compliant (which would be much more in line with the wheelchair-accessible capacity requirements of conventional transit systems), then the average vehicle size could be much smaller.

&quot;As someone who keeps up with transit world-wide, I have yet to read of such a system being implemented other than some airport systems.&quot;

There was no sustained manned heavier-than-air flight before Orville and Wilbur.

&quot;I would be happy if PRT was workable because it would be a nice transition from car ownership and having to drive.&quot;

Me too.

&quot;I suspect that a normal car version of KITT of Knight Rider fame would actually be more feasible although I am not expecting wide scale implementation of that in the next 30 years.&quot;

There are many advocates for driverless cars.  I&#039;m not sure why you think they are more feasible, as it&#039;s much easier to control a vehicle in one spatial dimension when the environment is highly controlled, as it is in PRT, than it is to control a vehicle in two spatial dimensions when the environment is much more unpredictable, especially if you plan on allowing these vehicles to operate alongside human-driven vehicles.  The AI technology which is necessary for, for example, allowing such vehicles in an urban setting with a high degree of reliability and safety is indeed years and possibly decades off.  Finally, driverless vehicles still lack most of the efficiency and travel time improvements that PRT provides, as the vehicles will still be heavier than necessary and be operating on the same congested roads that we drive on today.  The control systems needed for PRT are comparatively simple, especially for vehicle control which consists of little more than acceleration, deceleration, detecting obstructions (already deployed in commercial automobiles today) and communicating with regional and central control systems.  All the technology necessary for PRT, hardware and software, exists already.  It&#039;s just a matter of putting it together and testing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If the PRT vehicles are the same size as cars then the energy consumption will be about the same.&#8221;</p>
<p>PRT systems that are well-designed are not the same size as cars, they are smaller.  They are also lighter than even a car of the same size because they carry neither fuel nor batteries but run on an electrified guideway.  The switch patent I posted before shows a wheel and guideway design that results in much lower rolling resistance than does a simple tire-on-roadway design, further increasing efficiency.  Also, much of the bulk of automobiles is for safety reasons, but the risk of impact is much much lower for PRT (the risk of head-on impact is essentially zero, for example, and the risk of a side collision is exactly zero), and since all vehicles are equally lightweight to begin with, there is not the same degree of danger as there is for, say, an SUV impacting a compact car.</p>
<p>&#8220;PRT means grade separated infrastructure which is tunnel, open cut or elevated.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p>&#8220;If elevated the line will have to be 15 – 20 feet off the ground.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, but this can be done relatively cheaply with small and lightweight vehicles (on the order of a few tens of millions per mile).</p>
<p>&#8220;There will have to be storage tracks for at least some of the stations.&#8221;</p>
<p>Trains require storage yards as well, as do automobiles.  But because PRT vehicles are shared throughout the day, unlike private automobiles, you need fewer PRT &#8220;parking spaces&#8221; than you do automobile parking spaces (some estimates are around 1/10 as many), and spaces can be smaller because the vehicles are smaller and do not need room for access by humans while they&#8217;re parked in storage.  And since average speeds are higher than conventional rail, and total capacity needed for a given throughput is inversely related to average speed, you need less total capacity for PRT than you do for rail.</p>
<p>By the way, the reason PRT vehicles are as large as they are is for ADA compliance, which means being able to fit a wheelchair facing forward in every single vehicle.  If this requirement were relaxed so that only a certain percent of all vehicles needed to be ADA compliant (which would be much more in line with the wheelchair-accessible capacity requirements of conventional transit systems), then the average vehicle size could be much smaller.</p>
<p>&#8220;As someone who keeps up with transit world-wide, I have yet to read of such a system being implemented other than some airport systems.&#8221;</p>
<p>There was no sustained manned heavier-than-air flight before Orville and Wilbur.</p>
<p>&#8220;I would be happy if PRT was workable because it would be a nice transition from car ownership and having to drive.&#8221;</p>
<p>Me too.</p>
<p>&#8220;I suspect that a normal car version of KITT of Knight Rider fame would actually be more feasible although I am not expecting wide scale implementation of that in the next 30 years.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are many advocates for driverless cars.  I&#8217;m not sure why you think they are more feasible, as it&#8217;s much easier to control a vehicle in one spatial dimension when the environment is highly controlled, as it is in PRT, than it is to control a vehicle in two spatial dimensions when the environment is much more unpredictable, especially if you plan on allowing these vehicles to operate alongside human-driven vehicles.  The AI technology which is necessary for, for example, allowing such vehicles in an urban setting with a high degree of reliability and safety is indeed years and possibly decades off.  Finally, driverless vehicles still lack most of the efficiency and travel time improvements that PRT provides, as the vehicles will still be heavier than necessary and be operating on the same congested roads that we drive on today.  The control systems needed for PRT are comparatively simple, especially for vehicle control which consists of little more than acceleration, deceleration, detecting obstructions (already deployed in commercial automobiles today) and communicating with regional and central control systems.  All the technology necessary for PRT, hardware and software, exists already.  It&#8217;s just a matter of putting it together and testing it.</p>
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		<title>By: Clark Morris</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1401</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1401</guid>
		<description>If the PRT vehicles are the same size as cars then the energy consumption will be about the same.  PRT means grade separated infrastructure which is tunnel, open cut or elevated. If elevated the line will have to be 15 - 20 feet off the ground.  There will have to be storage tracks for at least some of the stations.  Each guideway or track will be at least 4 feet wide and stations have to be large enough to accomodate the peak number of people expected to be waiting plus the peak number that can be getting off.  As someone who keeps up with transit world-wide, I have yet to read of such a system being implemented other than some airport systems.  Indeed, I am not certain if any of the airport PRT systems are still running.  The Morgantown, West Virginia system uses larger vehicles than are claimed for PRT.  I would be happy if PRT was workable because it would be a nice transition from car ownership and having to drive.  I suspect that a normal car version of KITT of Knight Rider fame would actually be more feasible although I am not expecting wide scale implementation of that in the next 30 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the PRT vehicles are the same size as cars then the energy consumption will be about the same.  PRT means grade separated infrastructure which is tunnel, open cut or elevated. If elevated the line will have to be 15 &#8211; 20 feet off the ground.  There will have to be storage tracks for at least some of the stations.  Each guideway or track will be at least 4 feet wide and stations have to be large enough to accomodate the peak number of people expected to be waiting plus the peak number that can be getting off.  As someone who keeps up with transit world-wide, I have yet to read of such a system being implemented other than some airport systems.  Indeed, I am not certain if any of the airport PRT systems are still running.  The Morgantown, West Virginia system uses larger vehicles than are claimed for PRT.  I would be happy if PRT was workable because it would be a nice transition from car ownership and having to drive.  I suspect that a normal car version of KITT of Knight Rider fame would actually be more feasible although I am not expecting wide scale implementation of that in the next 30 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1400</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1400</guid>
		<description>I hope they take you obstructionists for every penny you have!  Go Turnpike!  I am so sick of wasting my weekend afternoons in traffic because of you creeps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope they take you obstructionists for every penny you have!  Go Turnpike!  I am so sick of wasting my weekend afternoons in traffic because of you creeps.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1399</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1399</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/patents?id=qSEwAAAAEBAJ&amp;zoom=4&amp;pg=PA1#v=onepage&amp;q=&amp;f=false&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s the patent for one type of vehicle-borne switch.  Other systems use magnets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=qSEwAAAAEBAJ&amp;zoom=4&amp;pg=PA1#v=onepage&amp;q=&amp;f=false" rel="nofollow">Here</a>&#8216;s the patent for one type of vehicle-borne switch.  Other systems use magnets.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1404</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1404</guid>
		<description>&quot;Show me the reaction time of the switches, how you are going to monitor for muggers, provide wheelchair access, locate the stations, etc. before I will believe in PRT.&quot;

The vehicles are ADA compliant, stations are monitored by remote video (or by on-scene private or public security if you so choose), stations are located wherever is convenient and cost-effective.  I don&#039;t know the exact switch response time but multiple demonstration systems have been built that seem to have no problem switching reliably (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcyVc6cYiLo&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6wFacwBMZE&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, for example).  The switching mechanism is on the vehicles rather than in the track, if you were wondering.  All this info is at the website I linked to, and lots of technical documentation is available &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.prtnz.com/component/option,com_docman/task,cat_view/gid,32/Itemid,37/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Believe it or not there has actually been a lot of thought put into the issues you raised and many others in the forty or so years PRT has been in development.  The video at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.prtinternational.com/cms/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;prtinternational.com&lt;/a&gt; is a good overview of both rationale and technical aspects, and you can contact them directly if you have more questions.

The rationale in a nutshell: cars are bad for a variety of reasons, but people often prefer driving to public transit because it is faster and more convenient.  If however we are able to provide a public transit system that is as convenient as the car but still as efficient and environmentally friendly as conventional transit, then we&#039;ve really got something good.  PRT attempts to do just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Show me the reaction time of the switches, how you are going to monitor for muggers, provide wheelchair access, locate the stations, etc. before I will believe in PRT.&#8221;</p>
<p>The vehicles are ADA compliant, stations are monitored by remote video (or by on-scene private or public security if you so choose), stations are located wherever is convenient and cost-effective.  I don&#8217;t know the exact switch response time but multiple demonstration systems have been built that seem to have no problem switching reliably (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcyVc6cYiLo" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6wFacwBMZE" rel="nofollow">here</a>, for example).  The switching mechanism is on the vehicles rather than in the track, if you were wondering.  All this info is at the website I linked to, and lots of technical documentation is available <a href="http://www.prtnz.com/component/option,com_docman/task,cat_view/gid,32/Itemid,37/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  Believe it or not there has actually been a lot of thought put into the issues you raised and many others in the forty or so years PRT has been in development.  The video at <a href="http://www.prtinternational.com/cms/" rel="nofollow">prtinternational.com</a> is a good overview of both rationale and technical aspects, and you can contact them directly if you have more questions.</p>
<p>The rationale in a nutshell: cars are bad for a variety of reasons, but people often prefer driving to public transit because it is faster and more convenient.  If however we are able to provide a public transit system that is as convenient as the car but still as efficient and environmentally friendly as conventional transit, then we&#8217;ve really got something good.  PRT attempts to do just that.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1403</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1403</guid>
		<description>If I recall correctly, NJTA applied for Federal stimulus funds for this project. Projects eligible for these funds need to have completed the EIR process to be eligible - this is why the Tappan Zee project could not access stimulus funds. Despite this, NJTA filed anyway. This breach of procedure could be enough to get the SLAPP off of your back - though you are probably way ahead of me on this.

Keep fighting the good fight, TSTC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I recall correctly, NJTA applied for Federal stimulus funds for this project. Projects eligible for these funds need to have completed the EIR process to be eligible &#8211; this is why the Tappan Zee project could not access stimulus funds. Despite this, NJTA filed anyway. This breach of procedure could be enough to get the SLAPP off of your back &#8211; though you are probably way ahead of me on this.</p>
<p>Keep fighting the good fight, TSTC.</p>
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		<title>By: Streetsblog New York City &#187; Todays Headlines</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1402</link>
		<dc:creator>Streetsblog New York City &#187; Todays Headlines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1402</guid>
		<description>[...] NJ Turnpike Authority to TSTC: How Dare You Try to Prevent Highway Widening (MTR) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NJ Turnpike Authority to TSTC: How Dare You Try to Prevent Highway Widening (MTR) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clark Morris</title>
		<link>http://blog.tstc.org/2009/07/30/release-nj-turnpike-authority-asks-for-sanctions-to-silence-critics-of-parkway-widening/comment-page-1/#comment-1406</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tstc.org/?p=6038#comment-1406</guid>
		<description>Show me the reaction time of the switches, how you are going to monitor for muggers, provide wheelchair access, locate the stations, etc. before I will believe in PRT.  Note that those are just some of the interesting technical problems in designing any transport system.

As to the SLAPP suit, if the TSTC can show that the authority did not follow appropriate state and federal rules, the SLAPP should get the heave-ho.  If the authority followed the rules and gave a defensible response to objections, then the TSTC is in trouble.  Personally, I believe that expanding rail capacity (BUT NOT THE Trans Hudson Tunnel as currently designed) is the far better public investment.  Note both expansions I mentioned may run out of capacity within a projected period but that is not a reason to oppose them.  One good reason to oppose either might be the strain they would put on other components of the system such as feeder roads to the Turnpike and Parkway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Show me the reaction time of the switches, how you are going to monitor for muggers, provide wheelchair access, locate the stations, etc. before I will believe in PRT.  Note that those are just some of the interesting technical problems in designing any transport system.</p>
<p>As to the SLAPP suit, if the TSTC can show that the authority did not follow appropriate state and federal rules, the SLAPP should get the heave-ho.  If the authority followed the rules and gave a defensible response to objections, then the TSTC is in trouble.  Personally, I believe that expanding rail capacity (BUT NOT THE Trans Hudson Tunnel as currently designed) is the far better public investment.  Note both expansions I mentioned may run out of capacity within a projected period but that is not a reason to oppose them.  One good reason to oppose either might be the strain they would put on other components of the system such as feeder roads to the Turnpike and Parkway.</p>
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